Chris, thanks for the reply, however this is my problem, the preinstalled ring tones are (in my opinion) anything but normal ringing sounds. I have had many cell phones and they all have their musical stuff, but also plain old "ring ring". The treo seems to only have the more trendy type of sounds. Of the preinstalled tones the "quick ring" is the closest but still sounds very odd.
I know I am in the minority wanting things plain rather than custom

I have seen other people post on forums looking for plain ring tones and have not seen anything to lead me to it.
I guess the easiest way to explain it is I just want it to sound like a phone.
Thanks for the help!
Pete